What Models Were Built @ Hayward?

[sodly]

These Mack Western brochures are awesome!  Did they ever put anything out on the Superliner besides the brochure we all know that was a national release, I believe?  This is the only brochure I've ever seen on Superliner I.  The only other one I've seen is when Superliner II was introduced.  You'd think there would've been something else on the first generation between 78 and 84.

[Whiskymack]

That is the Superliner 1 brochure. It was first published in 78 and it must have been updated several times. I have an 80 or 81 copy of the same thing and I've seen one online dated 78. The early copies have the tip turbine engines but late ones have the radiator mounted charge air cooler but most of the other content seems to be the same. Mack Western also put out a brochure in 78 showing the whole Hayward line up ie Super, Cruise and Value liner.

[Whiskymack]

More of the same:

[Whiskymack]

last two:

[sodly]

Yep, got that brochure, too.  Dumb question here.... can you explain the "tip turbine" engine and "radiator mounted charge air cooler" for the ignorant?

[Whiskymack]

I'm no expert but The tip turbine engines had the intercooler mounted to the top of the engine on the water manifold and air was forced into it by a small turbine on the back which I believe was driven by exhaust gases. In the brochure above they are the 300 maxidyne and 300 plus engines. Sometime in the early 80's Mack did away with this arrangement and had the intercooler mounted in front of the main radiator. There was no turbine forcing air through it. I think they started calling these engines Econodynes but somebody correct me if I am wrong.

[41chevy]

On 6/17/2016 at 0:59 PM, sodly said:

Yep, got that brochure, too.  Dumb question here.... can you explain the "tip turbine" engine and "radiator mounted charge air cooler" for the ingnorant?

 

6 hours ago, Whiskymack said:

I'm no expert but The tip turbine engines had the intercooler mounted to the top of the engine on the water manifold and air was forced into it by a small turbine on the back which I believe was driven by exhaust gases. In the brochure above they are the 300 maxidyne and 300 plus engines. Sometime in the early 80's Mack did away with this arrangement and had the intercooler mounted in front of the main radiator. There was no turbine forcing air through it. I think they started calling these engines Econodynes but somebody correct me if I am wrong.

 

[sodly]

Ahhh, yes.  That image was instantly familiar from my childhood when I read and re-read and re-read all those brochures.... but never really understood how it worked.  

[mackdaddy]

The current store manager at the Mack TEC dealer in Medford tells a few stories from Hayward days. His dad an engineer for Mack......last name of Jones came west for Mack when the plant was started. He said that there was at least a dozen G model cabs delivered to the plant from Allentown but they were never used. Did they have something to do with the development of the Cruiseliner? He also said the first prototype Cruiseliner that came off the line when they jacked the cab up both windshields fell out right on to the ground!

There is a guy that frequents some of the N California shows with a B-73 and he was working at the plant when it shutdown. He has some neat pieces that he brings to the show. One is bolts wit the bulldog on the head. Said they used them on some of the bumpers? however, when I was in Australia I saw a lot of these bolts on Macks down there.

 

 

 

 

[sodly]

Does anyone know why Hayward didn't make a go of it long term?  "Western" Macks are my favorites.  Wish they were produced longer.    

[kscarbel2]

20 minutes ago, sodly said:

Does anyone know why Hayward didn't make a go of it long term?  "Western" Macks are my favorites.  Wish they were produced longer.    

The work ethic of the people at the Hayward plant was terrible. They were "California casual" about showing up for work......one never knew how many people were coming in. The Allentown people sent out there were in constant frustration. The workers would install cab screws with their power tools until the threads were stripped. They didn't care. The idea of setting up a west coast plant for west coast truck production was logical. However, there was a people problem. This is all why the plant was closed, and the 2nd gen Cruise-Liner was built at Macungie.......with significantly better quality.

I believe one reason Peterbilt closed its plant at nearby Newark, California plant in 1986 was for the same reason, issues with assembly quality. Caterpillar, Ford, GM and International Harvester abandoned the Bay Area as well.

 

 

[Lmackattack]

On 6/18/2016 at 0:59 AM, sodly said:

Yep, got that brochure, too.  Dumb question here.... can you explain the "tip turbine" engine and "radiator mounted charge air cooler" for the ignorant?

 Tip Turbine used boost from the turbo to spin the turbine. the Turbine would draw "cold"air from the 2nd tube on the air cleaner and pass it thru a charge cooler to reduce the temp of the boosted air. A front mount intercooler works much better but there is no mistaking the sound of a tip turbine.

Many people dont know that there were a few versions of the side mount charge cooler. Some were air to air only others  had both air to air with a water jacket to help reduce intake temps.

the one shown in the pic has the water and air version

[sodly]

Ok, how about another stupid question about Western Macks?  Why did the "western" trucks have what appear to be larger grilles but with a smaller, reduced-size opening surrounded by the white/silver shroud?  Seems like western trucks were meant for big horsepower.  Wonder why the entire grill wasn't utilized to cool them.  Or am I missing something?  

[Lmackattack]

Your pic of the Blue RS700 is what looks like a 1972" or early western. These hoods were basically a Eastern R700 hood with a Western grill. You can see below the hood the grill extends to take up the gap between the hood and bumper. Also the there is openings in the bumper for more air flow to the larger radiators.

Now, look at the gold RS600. This truck is a later western R model as you will see that that the body line on the side of the hood is about 4" above the top of fender. The later Western R models had taller hoods and in my opinion looked better without a gap between hood and bumper.

You can also tell what era Western Mack you are looking at by looking at the gap between the top of tires and fender to see of its a early or later Western.

The cabs of Mack Western R models sat up higher on the frame allowing for a taller radiator options and thus higher HP with Mack and off breed engine options.  The western grill opening is about as wide as the frame rails and thus as wide as common radiators of that era. That being said, you could spec a Mack Western with a standard 6 cyl Mack and the standard radiator was plenty large for what we would consider a small bore diesel.

There are a lot of little differences in early and later Mack Westerns you just need to look close and you will see them.

[sodly]

Thanks for that explanation.  I've always seen those differences in the western R model hoods but never knew exactly why they looked different.  Makes more sense now.  

[Whiskymack]

Just as Lmackattack says, the grill opening is as wide as the frame rails and the Western radiators sat between the frame rails so were limited to this width. However, these radiators were much taller than the Eastern ones. There were also two options. For 6 cylinder and lower HP models a standard radiator sat on a front crossmember which spanned the spring hangers, but higher HP models such as the 866 V8's, Detroit V12's and high end Cummins were fitted with an even deeper radiator. This was mounted to brackets on the inside of the frame rails and the crossmember was deleted. Some of these trucks also had a different bumper with more cooling cutouts.  When the Value liner came out it had a redesigned front crossmember allowing it to take the same tall, narrow radiator that was fitted to some Cruise liners. It couldn't take the wide radiator that was fitted to the high HP Cruise Liner and Super liner because it didn't have a drop front.

[sodly]

Thanks, Whiskymack!

[sodly]

Hey, speaking of Western Macks, does anyone have a scan of the "Mack Western" logo that was used in those days?  Seems I even recall one with a bulldog wearing a cowboy hat.  Does anyone have any of that old artwork?

[sodly]

Just going over some Mack Western nomenclature in my head, trying to get it straight.  I think I've read here somewhere before that the Superliner 1 was a 700-series truck only.  There was no RWS/RWL6xx in the first generation.  It was RWS/RWL7xx only, correct?   

So if all first-gen Supers were built as 700-series were they rated for the same duty as a Superliner 2 700 series?  In other words, were RW6xx Superliner 2s lighter spec trucks than both Super 1 and Super 2 700 series trucks?  In other words, were Super 1 700s basically equivalent to Super 2 700s?  Or put another way, was the Super 2 700 a heavier duty truck than the other two versions or not?  Does that make sense?

[John Costley]

Nice thread...a slightly different view of the Tip Turbine set up...

[John Costley]

The whole '78 brochure that Sodly posted the cover to, for anyone who hasnt seen it

[John Costley]

The '75 Cruiseliner advert and the announcement in Bulldog with the cover

 

[John Costley]

The Western G...with a New Jersey address....

[John Costley]

This advert is a head scratcher for me...I dont believe I've ever seen that grill in any other Mack....no idea what year the advert is...

[Lmackattack]

1 hour ago, John Costley said:

This advert is a head scratcher for me...I dont believe I've ever seen that grill in any other Mack....no idea what year the advert is...

Good eye John , that is odd ...It must be that this was a early design the grill mesh looks the same but if does not have the flat planes around it. it also sports the early RS/RL 700 Hood with no provision for the lower grill extending down into the bumper.