The G Model Story.

[Doug Maney]

Of course being a G model owner and enthusiast, I have heard so many variations of the Mack vs. KW story that I could't remember them all. I have done extensive research on the G, reviewed build records, put together somewhat of a timeline of production and discussed with former Mack employees about the Great Western G. Unless someone out there can offer some proof, there was never a lawsuit regarding the G including some KW type features. My research does support the fact that KW did have a problem with the Mack design and possibly threated a suit if the G continued. No money changed hands, no judgements were issued it seems to have just ended with the introduction of the New F model in 1962.

Unconfirmed rumors that Mack hired a designer from KW leads to the similarities between the 2 cabovers. The concerns that KW were upset by were the access door into the left front of the cab and the left and right door design.

The access panel offered service to the backside of the dash and pedals where before you had to stand on your head on the floor of the truck to work in that area. KW offered a similar panel at the same time as Mack.

To the naked eye a G passenger compartment door and a KW door look identical, there are similarities in their construction but the overall size is different. A KW door will fit on a G but leaves an air gap around the top of the door frame that you could pass a pillow through. With this said, KW vent wing and side window seals will not work on a G door.

There have been many antique truckers that have claimed a lawsuit over this deal, I have never seen any proof. At this point I have to trust my research and sources. I always try to explain my position on the subject and usually don't get very far. A lot of antique truckers have an opinion on the Mack vs. KW story, you would think the G would have sold better since everyone seems to have had such first hand knowledge!

[Superdog]

That's pretty much everything I've heard too,Doug.Quite obvious that Mack made the better truck.How many of that vintage KW COE's do you see today??

[GearheadGrrrl]

The G model was a much more advanced design also, with a taller windows for better visibility and rounded front corners to reduce wind resistance. If I didn't know when the G was built I would assume it was a 1980s design.

[Superdog]

The G model was a much more advanced design also, with a taller windows for better visibility and rounded front corners to reduce wind resistance. If I didn't know when the G was built I would assume it was a 1980s design.

1959 to 1962

[Mack 3P]

Here's an old picture of a G with an H and B.

[57 bcr]

Thanks Doug, for the story.Have seen your trucks at Macungie many times.The old MACK vs.KW story (almost of urban legend status)has been going around for years,as you say.Went searching the archieves for this one.I always thought the G was ahead of its time and wondered why they ever quit building it,also?I know the F was the "up and commer"but the G looked like so much more of a truck to me,and a true competitor to west's big three!Oh well, I was only a year old when they introduced the F,and who at Mack was going to listen to me anyway

[Lmackattack]

only seen one G model in person and thought it looked very new considering its age. It does share some lines of the KWs of that day. Know of a guy that had a used one in CA but think he sold it a few years ago? He shared with me the same storys Goug brings up. Im sure the ones that know the whole truth are no longer with us?

Al I also think the G looked a little better than the F but they proved them selves in the end..

[jeffbyrne]

The G model was a much more advanced design also, with a taller windows for better visibility and rounded front corners to reduce wind resistance. If I didn't know when the G was built I would assume it was a 1980s design.

Hi Gearhead, compare a G with a Cruiseliner, in particular the windscreen. I'd agree with you. Regards Jeff.

[57 bcr]

only seen one G model in person and thought it looked very new considering its age. It does share some lines of the KWs of that day. Know of a guy that had a used one in CA but think he sold it a few years ago? He shared with me the same storys Goug brings up. Im sure the ones that know the whole truth are no longer with us?

Al I also think the G looked a little better than the F but they proved them selves in the end..

Don't get me wrong,I liked the F-FL/FS also, just did not like what the "iron moths" did to them.The WS/WL was what I thought to be the answer to the steel cab question.Turned out different.What ever faults they had,I'd still take a G,F,FS/FL,or WS/WL.Only Superdog can say"Got one of those" to all of those!(Not to mention the MH)

[theakerstwo]

I was around the KW and the G model and worked on both but that has been many years ago. The same story was told to us at the Mack dealer also. I just cant understand how the years passed by so fast.

[dockmen027]

When I was a kid, I rode in one of Red Star Express's G-models from the terminal in Glenmont NY to the Exit 23 compound and back, one fellow drove it over, and my Brother drove it back, I sat on the doghouse. I remember it was brand new and it may have been experimental because it was the only one I ever saw. I wish I had a camera back then.

This is also a great place to insert a Doug Fetterly photo of one.

[twostickmutt]

doug i think i asked you before but can't remember (crs). why was the G model the only mack made without a bulldog on it from the factory. i think you or someone said because of the length laws back then. they measrured from the foremost point.is that right?

[mackdaddy]

My Dad bought a 62 G model, I was only about 7yrs old then but can remember the pole in the middle of the interior roof right behind the doghouse. I dont believe the first G models had the pole. It was to keep the roof from flapping. My Dad said within a few years most of the rivets had popped out of the cab and that it was a very cold ride in the winter. I think they were an advanced looking rig for it's day. There were quite a few sold in those few years of production. I was told the issue with KW was the extruded aluminum door surrounds and that Budd sold it to Mack without KW's permission. I always thought the idea of the piece of rebar welded to the front axle cover plate for the first step was a little cheap.

[Phase 1]

My Dad bought a 62 G model, I was only about 7yrs old then but can remember the pole in the middle of the interior roof right behind the doghouse. I dont believe the first G models had the pole. It was to keep the roof from flapping. My Dad said within a few years most of the rivets had popped out of the cab and that it was a very cold ride in the winter. I think they were an advanced looking rig for it's day. There were quite a few sold in those few years of production. I was told the issue with KW was the extruded aluminum door surrounds and that Budd sold it to Mack without KW's permission. I always thought the idea of the piece of rebar welded to the front axle cover plate for the first step was a little cheap.

We have about the same story. My dad bought a 1962 G model and I was 7 years old in 1962. But he bought it used in 1963. It was a G-753LST. It had spoke wheels and the step on the wheel hub was a hex shaped stub. I think he said the price new was $21,000. It was a big deal that the drivers seat cost $200.

As I recall, the total number sold was a little over 2000 - and there was 1 with a gas engine. It has to be considered that the H model was also being sold at the same time as the G when looking at the low yearly numbers of the G sold compared to the F. I recently looked at a sales brochure and noticed that the available Mack engines had either 170 or 205 horsepower. 170 horses seems awfully small for that sized truck, even at that time - especially since it was aimed at the western market. Most of the G's had Cummins engines.

I have also within the last few years noticed the similarity between the Cruiseliner and the G. It may be that Mack was trying to recapture the good looks of the G. What is odd is that I never liked the look of the Cruiseliner, something about the front end and headlights, while I think the G was the best looking COE built. The GMC Astro also looks like a G.

.

Edited January 31, 2010 by PZ 1

[Doug Maney]

BBC (bumper to back of cab) was a very important selling point when overall length laws were enforced. The standard for measuring BBC or overall length is measured from the farthest point forward. When a bulldog is mounted on a G, the nose of the dog is the farthest point forward. This could easily add 1 1/2" to the advertised BBC dimension. From my research on G-models this was the reason. Mack could advertise the G as a short BBC tractor offering the best truck in it's class for BBC.

In response to several of the other posts re: G-models. There were many engineering changes made to the G cab. The post in the middle of the cab was added to offer support to the roof panel. The roof would "oil-can" when traveling causing quite a few concerns. The prop was added and eliminated the problem. Several other changes were made to increase the structural integrity of the cab. Most of the changes were made to eliminate water spray from the front tires interfering with the visibiility out the side windows and west coast mirrors.

I hope this helps. I would be happy to answer any other questions you may have. Doug

Check out the posts to the Wiki area of the Big Mack Trucks page on G-models.

[mack4ever]

BBC (bumper to back of cab) was a very important selling point when overall length laws were enforced. The standard for measuring BBC or overall length is measured from the farthest point forward. When a bulldog is mounted on a G, the nose of the dog is the farthest point forward. This could easily add 1 1/2" to the advertised BBC dimension. From my research on G-models this was the reason. Mack could advertise the G as a short BBC tractor offering the best truck in it's class for BBC.

In response to several of the other posts re: G-models. There were many engineering changes made to the G cab. The post in the middle of the cab was added to offer support to the roof panel. The roof would "oil-can" when traveling causing quite a few concerns. The prop was added and eliminated the problem. Several other changes were made to increase the structural integrity of the cab. Most of the changes were made to eliminate water spray from the front tires interfering with the visibiility out the side windows and west coast mirrors.

I hope this helps. I would be happy to answer any other questions you may have. Doug

Check out the posts to the Wiki area of the Big Mack Trucks page on G-models.

is that the same reasen they toke the right back corner out of the cab to make place for the mufler ?

[Superdog]

doug i think i asked you before but can't remember (crs). why was the G model the only mack made without a bulldog on it from the factory. i think you or someone said because of the length laws back then. they measrured from the foremost point.is that right?

The C-type fire trucks didn't have Bulldogs either,and I don't think the D-models did either.

[Doug Maney]

The C-type fire trucks didn't have Bulldogs either,and I don't think the D-models did either.

C-model fire trucks had the dogs on the front bumper filler panel down below the headlights.

My 1956 "second styling" D-model has a bulldog on the bullnose just below the windshield along with the other special to D-model logos.

The muffler was indented into the cab to allow a body to be mounted right against the rear of the cab. This helped with the overall length regulations.

Let me know what else you may need my thoughts on. Doug

[Superdog]

I'd never noticed the Bulldog on a C fire truck bumper,did they by chance use the same mount as the LT and C-600?

[Doug Maney]

I'd never noticed the Bulldog on a C fire truck bumper,did they by chance use the same mount as the LT and C-600?

I guess it may have been similar to a LT or C mount. As with most Mack Trucks built in the heyday, I'm sure they could be spec'd based upon what the customer wanted. I have seen some with bulldogs on each end of the bumper. I know that when Mack was building fire apparatus for a local department, extras would be added just to make the local truck extra special.

I have attached several photos of C's with different configurations. No siren mounted on the lower headlight panel, front mounted siren or front discharge mounted on the bumper.

[twostickmutt]

doug. is there a G-model registry anywhere. it seems to me someone had one a while back but i can't find it.thanks

[Doug Maney]

I recall sharing the serial numbers for the ones I own with someone but I don't remember who. I'll have to see if I can shake some dust out of my head to see if I can recall anymore about it.

[Superdog]

doug. is there a G-model registry anywhere. it seems to me someone had one a while back but i can't find it.thanks

I tried to start one a few years ago,didn't get much response,only 12 trucks or so.If anyone else wants to help or take over,I'll share what #'s I collected.

If anyone is looking,there is a really clean looking 1961 G model water truck on Craigslist right now.It's in California.

[twostickmutt]

I tried to start one a few years ago,didn't get much response,only 12 trucks or so.If anyone else wants to help or take over,I'll share what #'s I collected.

If anyone is looking,there is a really clean looking 1961 G model water truck on Craigslist right now.It's in California.

[/q damn nice looking G model there superdog. 3000 miles too far away though. maybe you were the one i talked to a while back about the registry.

[Tom Kirkpatrick]

In my early teens. Say just a teen. A friend of mine's dad was a Mack dealer. One very cold Thanksgiving evening we were enlisted to repo a G. We got on a Greyhound which turned out NOT to be the through bus. So we had the pleasure of stopping at every little town between our destination. We picked up and dropped everyone who had too much wine with the holiday dinner. So much for sleeping off our holiday dinner. We finally got the truck started with our last squirt of starting fluid it fired up. Away we went no heat and no fans to move it if we did. We have always credited ourselves with the discontinuation of the paper road map. We'd stop and get them by the handful. Stuffed in every crack, crevis, and rivet hole was a map or piece of one. We made it to sunrise and the cab warmed some with sunlight. It was before the roof pole what a rattle. They were too wide on old two lane bridges. Inevitably one mirror or the other went the way of the wind. My favorite back then had to be the H model, short haul,city work was the MB. Long haul was the extended frame B75 with an aero sleeper. When I was legal over the road the F models had come into their own. Took a long time to get a job also every company required three to five year experience. So without verifiable legal driving experience it made it tough. For me the fun went out of driving about 2008. So I pulled the pin and retired early. I remember a storiesthat one or the other windshield popped out on on the KW. Boy there are some fantastic memories.