B62Mack Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 My uncle and I are attempting to install a newer ENDT673C motor mated to a 20 speed transmission. The older engine had a 10 speed and when we installed the new motor we found that the transmission mounts did not line up right and we are about 4 inches off. When we measured the old tranny to the new one the 20 speed was 5in longer and the bell housings were almost the same. Im just wondering if anyone else has done this and has some advice for me. We are running out of ideas and our last thought was to drill new holes for the mounts on the frame to get them to line up.Thanks in advance!Jeff Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyCharger Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hi Jeff. I made the same swap a couple of years ago. I found all the mounts etc did line up, but I did have to get a new drive shaft (shorter) made up, because the length of the 20 speed gearbox is longer. If you recheck, everything should just slide right on in.Rod. Quote Proud owner of;1961 Mack B61 prime mover.1981 International ACCO 1810C DualCab Fire Truck Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 If one is a single disc clutch and the other a double dics, there are different lengths on the bell housings. terry Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
B62Mack Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Yes we did actually find that the bell housings were different. We are trying to figure out why everything is not lining up as it should. Everything is Mack so thats what makes it hard to figure out the problem. We also have a B61 with a 20 speed and we keep going out to that to look and see whats different and from what we see the engine in that sits much lower in the frame and there is about 4in between the firewall and the engine....on the one we are trying to swap we only have an inch and the engine seems to need to be pushed back more. I will be taking pics tomorrow to help with this. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 If one is a single disc clutch and the other a double dics, there are different lengths on the bell housings. terry Like he said different in the bell housings. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b61fred Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 HI,The bellhousing for the newer engine is more than likely for a dual disk clutch, I have found that most of the newer engines are dual disc because of more torque, and they were a option on b model macks as well, You have two choices, 1-use the single disc clutch and bellhousing, This may not be a strong clutch, but are you going to pull heavy loads or is it a mostly bobtail or light load operation? 2 install the engine in the front mounts and move the trans mounts back on the frame, I don't know if the clutch linkage affected by this or not. Plus and minus of each.... single disc.. possible clutch slippage, but could slip the clutch to save the rest of the drive line from over tourque, no change in mounts, gearshifters and parking brake will be in the original location, clutch linkage will not be effected. --- dual disc. no clutch slippage-- have to redrill frame for trans mounts, clutch might be a pull type clutch instead of push-- could have some reconfigureing of the linkage. drive line failure if the rears and driveshaft are not up to the extra torque. I don't know whats best... I think the single disc would be much easer to install but I don't know if it will perform satisfactory for your aplication.Fred Quote 15 gears...no waiting! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
B62Mack Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Thanks Fred! We did know about the single and dual disk clutches but we were not sure about if we put the old bell housing and single disk with the newer more powerful engine if it would slip. He has a newer freightliner rear end with air ride so the drive line should be ok. And we do work the truck so i am thinking that we should use the dual disk. Thanks for the info! I took pictures today and will upload them when i get home. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffbyrne Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 My uncle and I are attempting to install a newer ENDT673C motor mated to a 20 speed transmission. The older engine had a 10 speed and when we installed the new motor we found that the transmission mounts did not line up right and we are about 4 inches off. When we measured the old tranny to the new one the 20 speed was 5in longer and the bell housings were almost the same. Im just wondering if anyone else has done this and has some advice for me. We are running out of ideas and our last thought was to drill new holes for the mounts on the frame to get them to line up.Thanks in advance!Jeff Hi Jeff, I'm not sure about mounts, but if your B is an early one you might need a different 'X' member behind the cab, most Quads I've seen have a Xmbr that is reversed, so instead of being flush with the vertical wall of cab it sits behind the cab, turned the other way. I think this is because the Quad is longer. If the B62 is a petrol engine it mayb a different length, even #'s in model # means it is a gas job. B60 gas, B61 diesel, B62 gas, B63 diesel etc..I have noticed some B's have chassis rails protruding out the front with a cutout in the headlight panel, that seems to me that everything is sitting back further. I dont know what the story is there. Hope this helps, Regards Jeffro. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
B62Mack Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Well i think the final decision is to move the mounts back about 4in on the frame so they line up with the tranny. I took some pics of what we are working with and our unique engine removing tool! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark from OZ Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hi Jeff Before you start drilling, Try swapping the chassis mounts from right to left.When i took the Quad box single plate clutch out to fit a roadranger with twin plate clutch, The mounts either angle foward or back the R/R mounts would not line up so i swapped them to right left and the mounting bolts dropped in. Just a thought Mark Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
B62Mack Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hi Jeff Before you start drilling, Try swapping the chassis mounts from right to left.When i took the Quad box single plate clutch out to fit a roadranger with twin plate clutch, The mounts either angle foward or back the R/R mounts would not line up so i swapped them to right left and the mounting bolts dropped in. Just a thought MarkThanks mark but we already tried that. I thought of the same thing but swapping the mounts only made things worse...we will get it sooner or later! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 If I remember correctly the transmission mounts are bolted to the section the frame rails that "splay" out in width. If you move them further to the rear, they will be to long to allow your transmission mounting bolts that run through the mountings to align. I solved this with a conversion I did by sawing the mounts horizontal arm in a band saw removing the extra length, deep "Vee" grooved the weld zones, and welded the arm(s) back together. If memory serves I took put about 1/2" out of the center of each arm. To ensure proper alignment I installed the transmission without trying to install bolts. With the insulators, and washers in place a measurement was taken as the transmission rested on the mounts in the chassis. I was then able to measure for the material removal to get the holes to align.I am now old and feeble and the mind is not what it used to be. I could be suffering from the hallucinatory effects of my medications, but this is the way I vaguely remember it. Think I'll go into the kitchen and grab a leftover slice of German Shepherd Pie that's calling my name before "Momma" gets home and hogs it all down.Good luck with the project.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 If I remember correctly the transmission mounts are bolted to the section the frame rails that "splay" out in width. If you move them further to the rear, they will be to long to allow your transmission mounting bolts that run through the mountings to align. I solved this with a conversion I did by sawing the mounts horizontal arm in a band saw removing the extra length, deep "Vee" grooved the weld zones, and welded the arm(s) back together. If memory serves I took put about 1/2" out of the center of each arm. To ensure proper alignment I installed the transmission without trying to install bolts. With the insulators, and washers in place a measurement was taken as the transmission rested on the mounts in the chassis. I was then able to measure for the material removal to get the holes to align.I am now old and feeble and the mind is not what it used to be. I could be suffering from the hallucinatory effects of my medications, but this is the way I vaguely remember it. Think I'll go into the kitchen and grab a leftover slice of German Shepherd Pie that's calling my name before "Momma" gets home and hogs it all down.Good luck with the project.Rob This hand here is telling it right. The mounts are for real different. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b61fred Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 If I remember correctly the transmission mounts are bolted to the section the frame rails that "splay" out in width. If you move them further to the rear, they will be to long to allow your transmission mounting bolts that run through the mountings to align. I solved this with a conversion I did by sawing the mounts horizontal arm in a band saw removing the extra length, deep "Vee" grooved the weld zones, and welded the arm(s) back together. If memory serves I took put about 1/2" out of the center of each arm. To ensure proper alignment I installed the transmission without trying to install bolts. With the insulators, and washers in place a measurement was taken as the transmission rested on the mounts in the chassis. I was then able to measure for the material removal to get the holes to align.I am now old and feeble and the mind is not what it used to be. I could be suffering from the hallucinatory effects of my medications, but this is the way I vaguely remember it. Think I'll go into the kitchen and grab a leftover slice of German Shepherd Pie that's calling my name before "Momma" gets home and hogs it all down.Good luck with the project.RobI forgot about that, Would the frame mounts from a b75 or b73 work? the trans and engine sit back in the frame farther, could be a bolt on fix for your prob. Quote 15 gears...no waiting! Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I forgot about that, Would the frame mounts from a b75 or b73 work? the trans and engine sit back in the frame farther, could be a bolt on fix for your prob. I thing that the way Rob talked about will work. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8529-10-speed-to-20-speed-swap-questions/#findComment-31832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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