CTTreeGuy Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) Howdy all - The old girl lost all her power steering. I've been noticing it getting harder and harder to turn the wheels over the last couple of weeks, and now today I've got nothing. Can hardly turn the wheels an inch.I opened the reservoir and the fluid was extremely foamy, and was shooting up and out because the return fluid wasn't being forced through the internal filter like it's supposed to because the cover over the filter was spun to one side. When I shut the engine off the fluid started to overflow the reservoir in a big foamy mess. It appeared to be ATF, and I think 10W-40 is called for. (Is this correct?)I put the filter cover back where it belongs, drained the fluid as best I could, and refilled with 10W40. No joy.The pump is a Vickers - not sure yet what model - and the steering gear is a Sheppard 592.Question: Which has probably failed - the pump, or the steering gear? I'm guessing that the pump would go more often; hope so. Fleetpride wants about $350 for a new (or maybe it's a rebuilt) pump. Just wanted to get some input from someone who's been there. (I do have a gauge and fittings to test the pressure that the pump is putting out, but asking you guys doesn't get my hands as dirty).Thanks, John D.***Edit 3/24/09Tested the pump - 0 PSI. Ordered rebuilt Vickers VTM42604520 through C & C Hydraulics in Terryville, CT; 276.80 + $40 for next-day shipping. She'll be rolling again Thursday morning.Still would like to get opinions on using 10W40 in steering.Thanks. Edited March 24, 2009 by CTTreeGuy Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8761-lost-power-steering-75-dm685vickerssheppard/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Do you have the belt drive pump with the round filter in it,if so that filter can be cleaned in gas or solvent,try cleaning it before you do anything else,I always used motor oil in the power steering. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8761-lost-power-steering-75-dm685vickerssheppard/#findComment-32584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Can I ask why anyone would use motoroil instead of lighter transmission fluid. I realize the weight is heavier with motoroil but ATF has always been a magical fluid for any temperature extreme. Looks like the motoroil would have to be changed more frequent and have more problems with heat exchange or cleanliness.Thanksmike Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8761-lost-power-steering-75-dm685vickerssheppard/#findComment-32585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Sorry I didn't see your post earlier. I would have laid odds on the pump being bad. The Eaton/Vickers "V" series are a vane type pump and most have phenolic blades which tend to snap off if the pump cavitates for any reason. This could be from a clogged filter element starving the pressure section, or a system leak and refilling the reservoir when the engine is running. Be real careful when you check a pump by itself and not "T'd" into an operating system. Most of the smaller hydraulic pumps do not have internal pressure relief valves and do not hold up well when they have no path to discharge pressure/flow into.I run ATF in power steering units myself. A lot of heavy equipment specifies engine oil and it will not hurt anything if the proper sealing materials are used to stand up to the polymers incorporated into this oil. ATF does not have a lot of additives and is much more neutral in composition. There are no combustion by-products present in a steering system, just heat to contend with. Both fluid mediums readily accept this heat and circulate easily. Either will work.Glad to hear you have your problem addressed.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8761-lost-power-steering-75-dm685vickerssheppard/#findComment-32587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Can I ask why anyone would use motoroil instead of lighter transmission fluid. I realize the weight is heavier with motoroil but ATF has always been a magical fluid for any temperature extreme. Looks like the motoroil would have to be changed more frequent and have more problems with heat exchange or cleanliness.ThanksmikeI can't answer that question but when I bought my first truck many years ago a 1970 DM800 the owner told me to use motor oil for the power steering,the guy owned a pretty big truck Co so I figured he knew what he was talking about,never, had a problem with it,and never replaced the pump, I ran that truck for 15 years. So I still use it today in all my trucks. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8761-lost-power-steering-75-dm685vickerssheppard/#findComment-32588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Ok I just checked in my Mack manual for my 83 RD and it says to use EO-K single or multi grade engine oil,it doesn't give any other options. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8761-lost-power-steering-75-dm685vickerssheppard/#findComment-32590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bollweevil Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Can I ask why anyone would use motoroil instead of lighter transmission fluid. I realize the weight is heavier with motoroil but ATF has always been a magical fluid for any temperature extreme. Looks like the motoroil would have to be changed more frequent and have more problems with heat exchange or cleanliness.ThanksmikeThe rationale for using engine oil is that on engine mounted pumps, a defective pump seal could and sometimes would, deliver steering oil into the engine sump. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8761-lost-power-steering-75-dm685vickerssheppard/#findComment-32591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Trucking Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 The rationale for using engine oil is that on engine mounted pumps, a defective pump seal could and sometimes would, deliver steering oil into the engine sump.I've had that happen.Usually oil from the engine got sucked into the power steering and I ended up with a power steering system overfull of dirty black oil.I always ran 15W40 engine oil in the PS on my Macks, I believe that's what is specified by Mack. Quote "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8761-lost-power-steering-75-dm685vickerssheppard/#findComment-32614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I've had that happen.Usually oil from the engine got sucked into the power steering and I ended up with a power steering system overfull of dirty black oil.I always ran 15W40 engine oil in the PS on my Macks, I believe that's what is specified by Mack.Hi Herb, was that on a Eaton/Vickers, or Parker Hannefin pump mounted to the rear of the injection pump? I'm not particularly fond of Parker stuff due to seal leakage from what I've experienced.I've never been around a hydraulic power steering Mack truck with an inline engine, so not an authority there.Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8761-lost-power-steering-75-dm685vickerssheppard/#findComment-32615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Yes, makes more since to me now. I can see that happening to any pump plumbed that way.mike Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8761-lost-power-steering-75-dm685vickerssheppard/#findComment-32616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Trucking Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Hi Herb, was that on a Eaton/Vickers, or Parker Hannefin pump mounted to the rear of the injection pump? I'm not particularly fond of Parker stuff due to seal leakage from what I've experienced.I've never been around a hydraulic power steering Mack truck with an inline engine, so not an authority there.RobVickers.Flange mounted on the back of the compressor. Quote "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8761-lost-power-steering-75-dm685vickerssheppard/#findComment-32630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Vickers.Flange mounted on the back of the compressor.Probably a V20 series pump. Several redesigns through the years of the shaft seal. Great pump on a Detroit because of being smooth. Do not like vibration very well, but will run in the filthiest of environments for a lengthy time. When the phonelic vanes are replaced with steel, they run till catastophic failure takes them out. Rob Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/8761-lost-power-steering-75-dm685vickerssheppard/#findComment-32639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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